This is an edited transcript of a live chat which took place in
AmigaZone's chat area, on the evening of January 26, 2000. The special
guest was Mr. Fleecy Moss, Vice President of Product Development for
the new Amiga Corp. who bought control of Amiga from Gateway at the
end of 1999.
These chats with Fleecy (and maybe Amiga Pres. Bill McEwen will
join in too) will be held the last Wednesday of each month in
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Thanks to KTDetlie for assistance in editing down nearly two hours
of raw capture into this form.
--------------------- [BEGIN TRANSCRIPT] -----------------------
-Harv Everyone say hi in your own way to Fleecy Moss, VP of Product
Development (correct?) for the new Amiga Corp. (correct name?)
-Malcolm Mr. Moss, I consider you a demigod. Is that good enuff?
-Jaygross greetings!
-Moxee Hello Fleecy
-Fleecy something like that - I prefer "dreamer" until we get a product out.
-Skipper Hola, Fleecy (why do I feel I am being redundant?)
-Harv Fleecy.. before we strap you to the chair and insert the needle and
shine the bright lights on you.. how about a few lines from you as to your
background, Amiga-wise. or anything else you want to spew.
-Malcolm Does that mean UR ungodly? ;-)
-Fleecy Do I have to Harv? ppl know - let's get to the questions - there's
enough "fleecy novels" out there to bore a carpet convention
-Harv well folks were asking me in the past week who you were and why
you are now VP of Amiga. So in 25 words or less?
-Fleecy I am a developer, background in enterprise distributed design and
PM. Grew up on Sinclair and C64s. Got into Amigas, did some
organising, worked for Gateway for a bit, worked with Bill to put a plan
together, convinced some nice folks to give us lots of money and bought
Amiga - now the fun starts.
-Malcolm How leveraged was the buyout? How much do you owe to the
Mafia?
-Malcolm OK, Sorry
-Fleecy We are currently working on the dev system. Our team is training
up in Tao and we have already started design work. We are talking to HW
partners and are looking at a first consumer release sometime this year.
-Gsarff the meaning of life is whipped carp surprise.
-Harv Here's a burning question which was left in the suggestion box by
someone who can't be here tonite.
-Harv The question is this.. "I am considering upgrading my 040 A2000 to
an 060, PPC, etc. What would they recommend I do? Wait? Upgrade?
Get a A4000? or even hold off for a bit?
-Harv The reason I phrase it as such, is that I read the IRC transcript and I
know they do not want to release product info prematurely, and I don't get
much computer money so I have to spend it as wisely as possible.
-Harv If there is even a hint that there will be a new Amiga box, I may wait.
But if that new box runs $3k I would have to explore other options.
-Fleecy I can't answer that 8-) It depends on what they want to do. Part of
our plan is to provide a realistic transition from classic to AMIE (the new
Amiga) for users, developers, dealers and the like. The new system will
offer a method of running existing apps.
-Fleecy Our target for the pathfinder market is from $499 and upwards.
-Yojimbo Ok lets talk Amiga... I have been waiting for YEARS for a new
Amiga, I am willing (want to) spend big BIG bucks for a really "kick ass"
system. As it stands now I don't care if it is $3K plus (if it has a future),
any hope for people like me?
-Fleecy Yojimbo - the beauty of the Tao foundation is that it is
transparently distributable, which means you can add processors as you
like - of course you still have issues relating to the interconnect
mechanisms, but its a nice problem to have.
-Softlogik Question QUEUE Malcolm, Jay, Floyd, Yojimbo
-Skipper ga
-Harv skipper please repeat your question.
-Skipper Ok, Fleecy... after everyone elses screwing up, why the heck
should we believe ya'll will actually do anything meaningful?
-Fleecy Skipper - You don't. The world is an uncertain place. We have
good intentions. We have a business plan that is pulling in money left,
right and centre, we have partners phoning us up all the time - ppl believe
we have the potential, but until the product is in front of you, you just have
to go on gut feeling, whichever way that takes you
-Malcolm Yes, I live near the Navajo Nation. Glad to see you plan low-end
boxes, they need em out here. Would you consider the tax advantages of
having Amigas assembled in Indian Country?
-Jaygross mal, made in usa by genuine north americans?
-Fleecy If the curry is free, I'll assemble anywhere ;-)
-Malcolm LOL
-Fleecy 8-)
-Jaygross bigger question did gateway do anything salvageable? is it
really starting all over from square one, yet again?
-Fleecy We aren't starting over - OASYS and KOSH together represented
evolutionary steps in a process that saw us find Tao, who had been
creating what is in effect the bottom half of KOSH for 7 years now. As for
Gateway - we bought everything of value.
floyd-ok now a lot of us have a lot of money tied up in our amigas what are
the chances of any of the major software working on new systems
-Fleecy We intend to bring together a team to write a wonder emulator,
with direct access to OS and chip source. In addition, we are talking to
H&P about further legacy releases, which could slow migrate developers
from HW tied APIs, and then have a final release which moves those APIs
to the new machine. In addition, the BoXeR technology offers a unique
opportunity to have both systems running side by side and we are talking
to a west coast company about just such a project.
-Yojimbo (or whatever it's called) on top would, I think, be a true
successor to the original Amiga in many people's eyes.
-Yojimbo I'd definitely buy one. A BoXer also sounds REAL COOL "GA"
-Fleecy We aren't going to do HW. We are a SW company. OEMS look to
different markets and each has unique requirements. The radical nature
of Tao gives us HW independence and allows the HW companies to be as
creative as they want.
-Jaygross odd, my amigas are all hardware, not software.
-Harv Okay I'd like to put some nagging rumors to rest.. and here they
are..
1. Is Petro staying?
-Fleecy no I'm not welsh ;-)
2. Can you say if Amiga will go public and offer stock?
3. Should we expect AmigaOS ported to PPC? ga
oh. 4. I heard a r00mer about the remaining stock of 1200s being blown
out el cheapo. any truth to that? GA.
-Pault harv's warming up!
-Moxee yes
-Harv I haven't even started )
-Steveb He has not yet begun to fight.....
-Fleecy 1 - we are re-organising many things. Petro is there at the moment
doing a necessary job.
2 - that is the plan.
3 - it is not in our plans at the moment.
-Harv Hmm.. someone left some beef stroganoff in the penalty box..
-Fleecy I'm off at 12 EDT so kick me whilst you can ;-)
-Harv and #4? any truth to the rumor that the remaining petro 1200s will
be lowballed to the public like for a hundred bucks? GA.
-Pault ...by Petro out of the trunk/boot of his car....
-Fleecy 4 - we want to sell them, and if a price cut shifts them then it
would make sense.
-Harv ok thanks.
-Softlogik In your mind, what makes an Amiga an Amiga?
-Fleecy Elegance, simplicity, flexibility, empowerment, a kind of magic....
-Dbonache sounds like my swiss knife
-Jaygross the strength of the amiga originated from its software being in
touch with its software. I'm not interested in yet another os for my intel
boxen, especially one with no applications. i can get linux for that.
-Jaygross "Fleecy We aren't going to do HW. We are a SW company.
OEMS look to different markets and each has unique requirements. The
radical nature of Tao gives us HW independence and allows the HW
companies to be as creative as they want."
-Fleecy Jaygross - fine - that's what it means to you. Try our stuff and see
if you like it. We're not here to tell you how to think or feel amiga. That's
between you and your keyboard.
-Rabel1 I'm the happy new owner of a Picasso II card. It made a huge
difference in my A3000 but the cards cost over $200 ... Any plans for a
under $75 video card based on 3DFX Banshee or similar chipset which
will work on legacy Amigas? GA
-Harv see rabel1's question above, although I believe fleecy has said
"we're a software company."
-Fleecy Rabel1 not by us. We do have some interesting partners looking
at SH4 and ARMin combination with PVR3s
-Pault eeek, i understood not 1 of those....
-Skipper SH4- Hitachi embedded processor. ARM (probably meaning
StrongARM)- ubiquitous embedded processor. PVR3s? I don't know.
-Fleecy PVR NEC videologic graphics chip set - PVR2 is in Dreamcast -
unique design allows for scaling from low to high end./
-Harv fleecy will be leaving us in 45 mins max.
-Fleecy We are a SW company but you can't ignore HW. Our commitment
to our HW partners can be seen by our hiring of one of the best Amiga
HW guys there is - Dean Brown.
-Wendell DKB?
-Fleecy the one and only
-Harv oh dean brown. nice.
floyd- will the developer os be available to anyone who wants it or just the
registered developers?
-Fleecy Anyone can buy a dev system if they want it. Registered
developers get support
-Floyd-ok thanks
-Harv [butting in] is there a target date/month for dev. systems release?
-Dbonache hey!
-Harv just an obvious follow-up, Mr.. president.
-Harv and this helen thomas wig itches a lot. ga.
-Fleecy Harv - yep there is 8-) but we aren't announcing it.
-Fleecy we will offer the support free to commercial Amiga developers
where it will cost for the hundreds of non Amiga companies wanting to
come over. We want to help the Amiga companies get back on their feet
-Malcolm Yeah!
-Harv [applause]
-Moxee Great!
-Malcolm U say URA software company. Do you have commitments from
any reliable hardware developers to support your software with a box?
-Fleecy yes
-Fleecy (you can't expect me to reveal contractual information.... so don't
get pissed)
-Malcolm I ain't
-Harv Keivn, go ahead.
-Harv or even Kevin when I can spell.
-Dbonache I think we understood
-Steveb spilchek it
-Softlogik Well looking back at the Amiga compared to today's Wintel
environments, the one thing I see lacking was good development tools,
akin to Visual Basic or Delphi... Do you have any tool partners that will
make Amiga development accessible to the masses? And in particular,
tools amenable to developing vertical applications?
-Softlogik [i.e. database]
-Fleecy ain't that the truth. We have already put an Amiga IDe company in
contact with Tao to begin creating a decent compiler. Their VP language
is very powerful. I would also like to see a Blitz Basic type language we
want to restart the bedroom coders/demo scene.
-Fleecy Our team is busy constructing a formal development pipeline that
will revolve around Design By Contract (DbC). We are planning on
creating a set relational mechanism within AMIE to be used by the OS,
developers and users.
-Softlogik Let me mention that Borland's Interbase database (which is a
fine commercial product) is shortly going open source. I sure hope
somebody ports it to the Amiga.
-Fleecy that would be nice.
-Steveb Could you explain/define TAO for people like me who haven't
heard about it yet?
-Fleecy Tao is an RTOS built around a virtual processor. It is an object
based system that dynamically binds on the fly, meaning it is incredibly
fast and incredibly small. Its virtual processor means that tao binaries can
run anywhere the virtual processor runs.
-Softlogik [Heh, I was wondering what KOSH is]
-Malcolm Ambassador on Babylon 5
-Harv RTOS = real time operating system
-Fleecy KOSH was a second level description of a concept OS based
upon an entity sea model that a few of us were kicking around after
OASYS.
-Fleecy ..sorry Harv - too many TLAS ;-)
-Harv np
-Harv ;)
-Steveb concept is often a far cry from reality.
-Fleecy but it is better to have a map than stumble blindly around
-Prolific I have read that the Amiga OS was going to be a specialized
Linux, Is this Real Time OS running a different core? If not, I had also
read that Corel would be supporting the Amiga with its Office suite (I think
Corel Draw, too). Corel has their own Linux offering. Any relation to the
Amiga OS?
-Softlogik It's better to light one candle than to curse Microsoft
-Pault MS defines Darkness (tm) as the new standard.
-Fleecy I think you are thinking of the Collas plans for Amiga. AMIE will
run on top of Linux, due to its unique abilities, but it will run native on its
own.
-Prolific Is Corel still going to have its software on the Amiga?
-Fleecy Bill has spoken with their president - they are keen
-Pault OK, just to give you my view as a user type of guy, but one with an
eye on the future, I will get actually excited when I hear that actual
software partners have been signed on, a la the list which was attached to
the Gateway machine just before the plug was pulled. Corel, ATI, etc. In
other words, I'm looking for some "Street Cred" in addition to wanting to
continue being an Amigoid. That's my two pence, just FYI. GA
-Fleecy absolutely - go research the Tao partners - Sun, Motorola, Sony,
Criterion, ARM, Amino, HAVi - as well as software, Tao give us presence
and introductions.
-Rebbi Fleecy Thanks for being here, and greets from Austin. Forgive me
if you've already dealt with this one, but I was wondering whether you'd
been in touch with many of the old Amiga developers; Softwood comes to
mind. Final Writer was "almost there" as a serious WP. GA.
-Fleecy We have a list of Amiga developers that we consider strategic
allies in moving forwards. We are putting a package together to help
them. Our developer support manager is busy getting the dev support
program up and running. Contacting is his next job.
-Harv NEXT CHAT WITH FLEECY WEDS., FEBRUARY 23, 2000. MARK
YER CALENDARS.
-Harv go ahead Gary from IBM )
-Harv Prolific will be the last question, after me.
-Harv gary go ahead
-Gsarff oh. I have two questions. )
-Fleecy red heads, and 34c...
-Gsarff one, is how bizarre is the tao software? I have seen some pretty
bizarre stuff come out of the UK.
-Gsarff amigados, cli, all that bra ket stuff, metacomco.
-Pault hee hee!
-Gsarff I dealt with some British software at Intel a couple of years ago,
and see some at IBM now where I work.
-Harv 34c should answer the bra ket part ;)
-Gsarff and two, more important I suppose, I know you can't reveal
details, but the no new hardware is a bit of a downer for me, because I
was hoping for something Amazing. how Amazing is the new amiga going
to be, to pull me and others back from pc's?
-Fleecy bizarre? It is a radical departure but the more you use it, the more
you say, hey, this is how it should be done. One of our team in Reading
last week went from confusion to rapture in 2 days flat. We are working to
get more info out in the print mags.
-Softlogik TAOS sound like what IBM did with the System/38 1
5 years ago
-Gsarff ugh.
-Gsarff ok.
-Gsarff is the new amiga going to be AMAZING!! in your hopes or beliefs?
you can't say details I know.
-Fleecy We are going to be amazing in SW. To be amazing in HW is a
much more costly approach. Ask Skipper.
-Gsarff yes.
-Gsarff but, the kind of reactions we got when people saw the boing demo
in 1985. that kind of thing. jaw dropping.
-Softlogik Ya, now the boing ball will kiss you and smell like roses.
-Fleecy It's going to be very different from what is out there now - it will
require rethinking how you relate to and think about computing, data,
content.
-Gsarff ok. thanks.
-Harv Go ahead me. What concerns me now as an Amiga person are the
# of net things I can't do. real audio, shockwave, all them nice radio/TV
plugins, etc. are you talking to all of those companies to port? please say
yes. GA.
-Gsarff exactly harv.
-Fleecy jaw dropping is harder these days without warp cores and
dilithium. How about a printer that connects up and works the way you
expect it to ;-)
-Pault harv RULES! OK.
-Softlogik Fleecy THAT would be amazing
-Harv this i why I make the no bucks ;)
-Gsarff fleecy, well that would be nice yes. ) ha
-Steveb WHEN?
-Harv in other words, it pains me to have a friend who now has a net radio
station up and I can't listen to him.
-Rebbi harv is the resident genius.
-Fleecy we are talking to them but they offer proprietary solutions. Our
attitude is that open specifications should exist so that all can talk and
work together.
-Harv and to go to a web site and it says "you need Java, peon, go
download IE5"
-Fleecy Implementation is where you make your money.
-Steveb IE5.5
-Harv but you're not going to convince real networks to hand you their
source code.
-Softlogik With service pack 4
-Harv and if 90% of net media is in real format, we need a player for it.
-Softlogik I guess the solution is to leave the proprietaries in the dust
-Rebbi Real would like all of the net content out there funnelled through
their proprietary sludge.
-Fleecy the web is proliferating different players and standards - are we a
platform company or a plug in company?
-Harv just bugs me the things I can't do. not even with a mac emulator
cuz I can't emulate a power mac. that's all.
-Harv I was just hoping for a "please port your player" "okay."
-Harv ga. I'm done.
-Fleecy When we have zillions of dollars, we can afford to jump on that
bandwagon, but now we can't. Hopefully we'll never have to.
-Rebbi I guess if you sell enough Amigas, and they see a profit center
there, then Real will allow a port.
-Harv sell some stock. I'll buy.
-Prolific I understand that you cannot reveal some confidential stuff
regarding hardware, but can you give some hints about a timeframe for
new hardware and base processor for a dedicated Amiga?
-Moxee I will buy also.
-Fleecy harv - we'll ask them - it pains me as well. We can't be a
complete solution if some of the web is closed to us, but we have to
concentrate on providing a compelling reason for them to port to us, and
not the other way around.
-Harv I understand. but at least I know it's paining you too. which is what
counts. since YOU can DO something about it. and so can we if you sell
shares )
-Harv sorry for interrupting.
-Rebbi Fleecy feels harv's pain. ;-)
-Steveb Or get somebody to do what MS did, write a "Microsoft Media
Player" thingie
-Fleecy we hope to see consumer machines out before the end of the
year, targeting x86 and PPC families. We have companies wanting to
cover all ranges.
-Gsarff that is basically why I sold my amiga. I wanted to do realaudio at
home, I wanted to do digitized mpeg video, I wanted to 'do things'. and I
could not with my amiga.
-Softlogik I gotta run. Thanks, Fleecy, for the chat. I'm looking forward to
what you come up with.
-Fleecy I never touched it ;-)
-Softlogik Question Queue Rebbi, Gsarff, Harv, Prolific. To add yourself to
the question queue, send a "?" in quotes.
-Harv thanks for queueueueing kevin.
( most of Kevin/Softlogik's work keeping the question queue orderly has
been edited out, but it was excellent. editorial comment)
-Fleecy Thanks Soft - 3 more questions and then I gotta sleep
-Harv Okay, floyd go ahead.
-Floyd the reason I stayed with the amiga was that I didn't have to rtfm
whenever I wanted to do something will the new amiga be the same way?
-Fleecy We are looking at an abstract device as a target - the Invisible
Universal - part of this means it is invisible to the task -it should do
something the way you think it should be done, and if it doesn't, then you
should be able to teach it.
-Fleecy 2 more
-Harv last question, mr. rebbi, sir
-Rebbi For a time under Collas, just before his departure, some cool press
buzz in the MCC was being generated. I really want to see a picture of
you and Bill on the cover of Wired, let's say. Is that gonna happen? ;-) GA
-Fleecy Bill has more connections than a NAP 8-) With some of the
announcements coming over the next few months you are going to be
sick of the sight of us.
-Fleecy last one
-Harv Remember - next chat, 23 February 2000. fleecy thanks a million for
doing this hopefully next month there'll be even more new stuff to ask
about )
-Harv and sorry for the rough edges.
-Harv [applause sign]
-Gsarff thank you fleecy.
-Fleecy just remind me when it is 8-) Thanks everybody.
-Moxee Thanks for being here Fleecy.
-Steveb applause!!!
-Rebbi yippee!! clap, clap, clap!
thanks for being here
-Ktdetlie thanks fleecy
-Steveb salutes!
-Harv you will be reminded. don't worry about that. )
-Malcolm Yeah thanks
-Skipper Tankards, Fleecy.
-Harv and say hi to Bill for us. he can join in the fun too.
-Prolific Thanks, too.
-Fleecy thanks Skipper - chat soon man, and keep your hands to yourself
on long flights;-)
-Floyd have a pint on me or harv
-Harv the pint's on Floyd.
--------------------[ END TRANSCRIPT ]------------------------
Remember, the next chat with Fleecy will be on the evening of
23 February, 2000 and you must be an AmigaZone member to join in.
Otherwise, you'll have to wait until it's edited and posted where
you found this transcript.